http://www.rbr.com/ ©2007 Spoonlabs d.o.o. Vivvo CMS 4.1 2012-02-11T23:15:53-06:00 http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-26T16:53:00-05:00 2008-08-26T16:53:00-05:00 Jack Messmer I totally agree with Bob Harper about perceptual research being the most important research for programming a radio station, but I could not disagree more http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-27T05:38:55-05:00 2008-08-27T05:38:55-05:00 Randy Kabrich I call BS. There is NO market in America where the Top 5 stations Adults 25-54 share 50%, much less 75% of the same tunes and are in a "virtual ratings tie".With statements like this, we can easily dismiss the rest of "Robert Smith's" statements, however, luckily for the American Public, we program to the masses, not the experts. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-27T09:21:38-05:00 2008-08-27T09:21:38-05:00 Robert Smith Call it what you want. I totally understand your position. After all, your livelihood depends on convincing owners that your science makes sense. And unfortunately for Radio listeners, those owners only understand what they can "measure" and see on a spread sheet, so they buy into your BS and have been doing so for years. They're all about risk-aversion. They wouldn't know a good song from a bad song, so better to rely on a bogus science than allow emotions to enter into the picture. But emotion is what music is all about and that's something very difficult if not impossible to measure accurately. In addition, you don't program to the masses, you program to the handful of people who you play your hooks for. That's not science, that's voodoo. The sample size and the method make the whole thing completely unreliable from a statistical standpoint. Anybody with the slightest background in real science understands the need for large samples and appropriate controls. There are no controls. There is no accounting for how those people will react when they actually hear the song on the radio. How can you play only the hook from "Carry on Wayward" son and draw conclusions about how those listeners will react to the three-plus-minute driving guitar solo that makes up most of the song? How can we ask people "Do you know this song" and "Do you like this song" but never ak them "Do you want to hear this song every day for the rest of your life?" Furthermore, I'm not talking about programming music to the experts, I'm talking about letting the experts program the music for the audience. I'm talking about giving your station a unique musical identity or "stationality." There was a time when credible personalities on respected stations took the lead on establishing good music in the minds and hearts of their audience and Album Rock Radio and its successors were very profitable. Listeners were passionate about and loyal to their favorite stations, and afraid that if they tuned out they might just miss something important. Now they know they can get just about the same thing anywhere they go. Hell, most stations even do their commercial breaks at the same time as all of their competitors. (Ever try to find a song on the radio at about 22 past the hour?)On the sales side of the business we talk about helping our advertisers find their Unique Selling Position. What is it about their business that sets them apart from all of the others in the same category? Why should a consumer choose them over their competitors? But on the programming side, we strive for sameness. We avoid using the most important, largest part of our product to create a difference and give ourselves a competitive advantage. And by the way, here's how the top five music stations rate in my market, A25-54, Monday-Friday, 6am-7pm:WAAA Classic Hits 1.8WBBB Light AC 1.7WCCC Hot AC 1.7WDDD Urban CHR 1.4WEEE Active Rock 1.1A stastical dead heat. The top three do indeed duplicate 50-75% of each other's playlists. The Active Rock is more of a Classic Rock and a good 50% of their music is the same as the Rock Hits station. The Urban CHR and the Hot AC also share about 50% of each other's music. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-27T11:01:39-05:00 2008-08-27T11:01:39-05:00 Bob Harper Robert and Randy...Thanks for the feedback. (paraphrasing) "...music tests don't kill radio stations, bad decisions do." Can we agree?Robert, you are a self-described Radio Junkie. Randy is an extremely successful Radio Programmer and Consultant. There is nothing wrong with your approach, Robert, except the result is less likely to be commercially successful. Heck, we have enough stations out there in the top 4 or 5 whose sales people can't close an order.I think you have the best answer in your post and missed it: do BOTH. Test your music -and- put the results in the hands of the passionate programmer. Not very different from a specialist at the Mayo Clinic ordering a complete battery of tests before developing a diagnosis. I don't know about you, but I would want a Dr. to know my PSA numbers before he engages his 'knowledge and passion' on my prostate (that came out a little odd, but you know what I mean).A music test is a loaded weapon. A bad music test is a loaded automatic weapon with the safety off.I know one thing for sure – if someone handed me paints and a brush and asked for an idea on a wet stucco wall, we would not be looking at anything resembling DaVinci. Paint, Brush, Stucco, Music Test - tools; implements – either in the hands of a Master or hack.Robert, you say in your second note, “…In addition, you don't program to the masses, you program to the handful of people who you play your hooks for. That's not science, that's voodoo. The sample size and the method make the whole thing completely unreliable from a statistical standpoint.” But, if the sample and method ARE correct, we come up with some pretty good Science to help the Art fashion a popular Radio station for more than the people in the survey room. The Mayo Clinic doesn’t need all of your blood to make a diagnosis, thank goodness. Usually a few ounces of your five to six quarts is enough. Gallup doesn’t need to speak with every voter. They know the answers from “…2,684 registered voters, (gives them) the maximum margin of sampling error (of) ±2 percentage points.” (see http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bounce-Obama-Post-Biden-Tracking.aspx).Before I become guilty of endless research blah-blah-blah let me end with a drop-in they once played on WNOP, Newport, KY: “…get away from the wheel-barrow. You don’t know nothin’ bout machinery.”I sincerely appreciate you responding to my article,Bob Harper http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-27T15:55:18-05:00 2008-08-27T15:55:18-05:00 Robert Smith Bob,"Do BOTH." We're back in agreement. I guess I let my complete disappointment in the industry's OVER-reliance on music research OVER-shadow my real point, which is that NOBODY IS REALLY DOING BOTH. The fear that drives most programmers will not let them go off the page no matter what. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a programmer say "I think that's a great song and totally perfect for my station but it doesn't test well so I won't play it." What?!?!?!! I'm the guy who is being held responsible for the product, the guy who is supposed to have his finger most firmly planted on the pulse of the audience, and I'm going to let a handful of people in a focus group over-rule my experience and intuition? Sorry. Can't do it. I too was a very successful programmer once, but got booted out of that side of the business mainly because I dug in my heels and continued to hold opinions like the ones expressed above. I actually had a highly-regarded (at the time) researcher tell me, after a music test revealed a very high percentage of burnout on songs he swore would test "through the roof," that we should play the music that tested poorly because "it is better to play music we have some research data on than play music we haven't been able to test." That guy became a millionaire selling that kind of crap to owners. My other major issue with music testing is what is EXCLUDES. We can only afford to test so many titles. When we test 500 songs out of a potential 10,000 we're goinng to miss a lot of good ones. If that doctor who does your PSA test writes off your heartburn as simple acid reflux you're both going to feel pretty stupid when you die from stomach cancer. All I'm saying is that all that science might help you stay competitive, but it will never make you great. Greatness requires risk.I'll finish by quoting/paraphrazing Roy William from his book The Wizard of Ads: "[Science] may not fail as often as intuition, but it doesn't win as often either. Great leaders have intuition. It is intuition that tells them how to go where none has ever been. [Science] is to be cherished. Please don't think I'm trying to diminish it. I'm merely urging you to give intuition the credit it deserves. Sometimes the thing that makes the least sense is exactly the right thing to do." http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-27T18:28:27-05:00 2008-08-27T18:28:27-05:00 Bob Harper Can I get an Amen??!You are preaching to the choir, Robert. I'll duel you a quote from Stanley Crouch...“The classical musician - no matter how great - is reading music or playing it from memory … he is too closely connected to what he was told about how to play. This makes it virtually impossible for him to encounter, much less master, the kind of personal hearing knowledge from within his own being.” And, while I'm there...“If you create from the heart, nearly everything works; if from the head, almost nothing.” -- Marc Chagall http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-28T04:29:56-05:00 2008-08-28T04:29:56-05:00 Randy Kabrich "In my market, the top five Adult 25-54 music stations are in a virtual tie ratings-wise. WAAA Classic Hits 1.8WBBB Light AC 1.7WCCC Hot AC 1.7WDDD Urban CHR 1.4WEEE Active Rock 1.1Again, BS...."The top three do indeed duplicate 50-75% of each other's playlists. The Active Rock is more of a Classic Rock and a good 50% of their music is the same as the Rock Hits station. The Urban CHR and the Hot AC also share about 50% of each other's music. "does not equalCoincidentally, 50-75% of the music on each of these stations can also be heard on all of the others."NOTE ALL THE OTHERSYou must be a politician as you keep changing all your statements.Given your statements, its obvious why you were removed from your positions as you dug your heels in.The funny thing - Bob and most everyone else in Radio (especially Arbitron) will tell you NO ONE is as passionate as me and will dig my heels in - especially when it comes to bad decisions based on bad research!Funny thing is - when proven right time and time again, I never seems to be a problem getting employment. One only has a problem and gets forced out of Programming when being passionate and digging their heels in are when their arguments don't hold water....you know, like changing their facts everytime they state them. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-28T08:50:14-05:00 2008-08-28T08:50:14-05:00 Robert Smith OK. You got me. It's only the top THREE whose playlists mirror each other. Maybe that's because they all keep testing the same "approved" pool of 500 songs. (Hell, knowing how meticulous the research companies are about recruiting their sample, they're also probably testing those songs using the same group of people.) In addition, I'm not blind to the business realities of the industry, the amount of money at risk, and why an owner would prefer to play it safe. (If I just got charged with murder I wouldn't hire an attorney who says "I have a really different idea for a defense that I just know will work." I'd want the guy who says "I've tried 1,000 thousand similar cases and I've gotten 999 aquittals.") What I am saying is that perhaps we should CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY that the reason Music Radio continues to lose so much audience to iPods and internet and satellite and all the other "new media" is that those new media are new and shiny and interesting, while the current methods for selecting music have rendered Music Radio boring and predictable; that the sameness and predictability of playlists on most Music Radio stations has so blurred the differences between those stations that there is no longer a reason for listeners to make a choice, have a preference, or show any real loyalty; that the lack of loyalty has created markets where no station can ever hope to become a significant ratings leader; where that same lack of loyalty extends to advertisers who also can't discern any real difference between stations and therefore base their buying decisions on price alone; that perhaps, just PERHAPS, instead of focusing all of our attention on making our music as safe, bland, lacking in personality, and GRAY as it can be, we might want to look at music as the greatest tool we have for making our listeners passionate about our medium again, and add a little COLOR. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-29T05:40:08-05:00 2008-08-29T05:40:08-05:00 Randy Kabrich In the words of Barack Obama, its not that John McCain doesn't care - John McCain is out of touch and just doesn't get it.In the words of Randy Kabrich, "its not that Robert Smith doesn't care - Robert Smith is out of touch and just doesn't get it. (Biden can steal stuff - at least I give it attribution).All your arguments have fallen apart once questioned. Even your facts that 5 stations are statistically tied is incorrect when one station has 70% more than the other.Your "all 5 play 50% to 75% of the same tunes" is now down to "3 play 50% of the same tunes", still BS.Your comment that everyone tests the same pool of 500 songs to the same people show just how out of touch you are.I appreciate your caring, but there is a good reason no one will give you the keys to their car - because you are just out of touch and just don't get it. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-29T08:16:40-05:00 2008-08-29T08:16:40-05:00 Robert Smith I have no interest in owning the keys to the car because I know the fuel that powers it is made from dead dinosaurs and will ultimately run out, that the current owners will keep blindly relying on that type of fuel instead of looking for ways to make the car run faster, cleaner, and more efficiently, and that the consumers who rely on that car will continue to look for better means of transportation as that car is less and less suited to their needs. I was out of touch when I argued that switching from three short stop sets each hour to long music sweeps and two eight-minute stop-sets would only train listeners to leave the station every time a break came along, and that it would piss off advertisers whose message was never heard because they were often the seventh or eighth unit in one of those long breaks, not to mention seriously decrease the efficacy of their investment. I was out of touch when I said using the slogan “Ten in a Row” when we never actually played ten songs in a row (ostensibly because promoting a specific number of songs “tested” better than saying “Forty minutes of non-stop music”) would just give our listeners another reason not to trust anything we tell them. I was out of touch on a half-dozen other occasions when I protested that the research was flawed and sending us down a path that would ultimately lead us to have to correct our mistakes or start over again completely. And now I am still out of touch because I believe that it is better to win BIG than to merely stay competitive. I am out of touch because I believe that instead of living in fear, hunkering down, and doing what we’ve always done despite clear evidence that it is no longer working, we might want to re-consider the methods. And I guess I am still out of touch because I think that taking a handful of people who have no vested interest in the product and allowing them to tell us what to do with it will keep us continuously playing defense when what we really should be doing is taking the lead and creating compelling, vibrant, impossible to ignore radio stations. http://www.rbr.com/features/viewpoints/9577.html 2008-08-29T08:37:00-05:00 2008-08-29T08:37:00-05:00 Randy Kabrich Let me explain why you are out of touch.Let's look at the Hartford Stations you listed (you see, I really am not that dumb).""And by the way, here's how the top five music stations rate in my market, A25-54, Monday-Friday, 6am-7pm:WHCN Classic Hits 1.8WRCH Light AC 1.7WTIC-FM Hot AC 1.7WZMX Urban CHR 1.4WCCC Active Rock 1.1"A stastical dead heat." No, read the tables in the back of the Hartford Book."The top three do indeed duplicate 50-75% of each other's playlists."Let's examine that. Using last Thursday, 8-21-2008, a total of 570 titles were played between WHCN, WRCH and WTIC-FM. WHCN played the most titles @ 260/570 = 45% of the shared titles.WRCH played 243 titles/570 = 42% of shared titles.WTIC played 169 titles/570 = 29% of the shared titles.So - you state that the 3 duplicate 50%-75% of their titles, when in fact none actually duplicate 50%!!!!! Furthermore, only 6 titles - S I X - were played on all 3 stations.You also state: " The Active Rock is more of a Classic Rock and a good 50% of their music is the same as the Rock Hits station."Again, using last Thursday, 8-21-2008, WHCN as before - 260 titles and WCCC played 169. The total titles duplicated between the two? 8 - not 8%....8 TITLES out of 421!!!! that's less than 2%!!!!NOT A GOOD 50%....less than 2%And my favorite:"The Urban CHR and the Hot AC also share about 50% of each other's music."8-21-2008, WTIC with 169 titles and WZMX with 134 titles. You want to know how many were duplicated?wait for it.....wait for it.....wait for it......0Z E R OGoose EGGNone!Not 50% - N O N E!!!!This is why no one will listen to you or give you the keys to the station. Every one of your facts WERE WRONG.For someone that claims they love music and has a passion for music, to put it bluntly, you are musically ignorant of what is going on in your market.Thus, not knowing what is really happening in your market would make a horrible PD. The GMs actually got it right keeping you out of the drivers seat.And btw, if you look at a longer period of time, from 8/1 through Wednesday, close to 4,000 titles were played between Top 3 Stations and the duplication titles drop incredibly.