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Volume 24, Issue 56, Jim Carnegie, Editor & Publisher
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Wednesday Morning March 21st, 2007
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Radio News ®
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 Hot seat on Capitol Hill
for Mel Karmazin
Attorney David Balto said "A monopoly is forever." There may be temporary safeguards put in place on the proposed merger of XM and Sirius, but he said your grandchildren will be paying monopoly subscription fees. And if you live in a small town right now, with a limited number of terrestrial radio stations, XM and Sirius are the options, and they should remain competitive. The Chairman of the Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights Subcommittee Herb Kohl (D-WI) said that merging XM and Sirius into one company would be a great business opportunity, over time, but he wasn't sure the government should be condoning it. Kohl compared the merger to having hundreds of over-the-air television and only one cable company. Over a period of time, the single entity could become such a behemoth that the government may have to step back in and deal with it. NRG Media's Mary Quass noted concerns that a giant merged DARS company could lock up programming, making it unavailable to broadcasters, and Balto agreed that the issue of program exclusivity by itself was more than enough reason for NAB to be concerned. And if you want to try to sell a show for national radio, you have two services to leverage; if it becomes a monopoly, one person makes the decision and that's it. Sam Brownback (R-KS) was disappointed that Karmazin was unwilling to promise to eliminate "pornography" from a combined entity (there was difficulty with how pornography should be defined). It all kept Sirius Satellite Radio CEO Mel Karmazin hopping. He repeated much of what he's said before in his two previous Capitol Hill appearances - the market is bigger than just two satellite radio companies, they'll still be in hot competition with broadcasters, iPods, telephone and internet companies, that the merged entity will have added benefit for subscribers. The session was sparsely attended by members of the Senate. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), the committee's ranking member, seemed, if not the most sympathetic, then at least the least hostile, noting that the issue hangs on the definition of the relevant market. Public Knowledge's Gigi Sohn repeated her earlier support for the merger with conditions.
| Statement summaries here |
Karmazin v. Karmazin?
Speaking of the DARS business, somebody once said, "You are dealing with two companies - it would be great if there was a monopoly, but the second best thing to a monopoly is a duopoly." Somebody recently took a somewhat different view of the situation at a recent Congressional hearing on the proposed XM/Sirius nuptials. "There is no monopoly or duopoly. That's the most bizarre thing I have ever heard." The National Association of Broadcasters unearthed these two quotes, and has taken out a fourth ad in the Capitol Hill dailies to share them with legislators. What makes the statements remarkable is that they were both said by Sirius honcho Mel Karmazin.
| View the Ad |
RBR observation: Investors often have different interests than regulators and legislators. It's too bad you can't make your broad statements to these groups with an eyes-only disclaimer, especially in these days when anything you say echoes endlessly on the world wide web.
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Slight uptick in February revenues
It will be nearly two weeks before the RAB reports the official tally, but Bank of America analyst Jonathan Jacoby says it looks like February radio revenues may have been a little bit better than he and others on Wall Street had expected. Based on data his team has gathered from markets across the country, Jacoby says it appears that February spot sales were up 1-2%. Add in Internet and other non-spot revenues and the estimated gain is 2-3%. The analyst had been expecting spot sales growth of just under 2% and total growth of 2.5%. He cautions, though, that the recent checks by his staff at BofA could slightly overstate the total industry growth because the largest radio markets faced easy comps against February 2006. For the quarter, Jacoby is sticking with his estimate that Q1 radio revenues will be up 2%. "Our checks continue to indicate that advertisers continue to place business later and later. Furthermore, we believe that the industry continues to struggle to find new advertisers to come to the medium," the analyst said.
 Broadcasters file with CRB against new royalty rates
A bunch of traditional and online broadcasters Monday challenged the ruling from the Copyright Royalty Board that would destroy online Internet broadcasting. Clear Channel, NPR, and groups representing both large and small companies providing music broadcasts online were among those asking the CRB to reconsider key parts of its recent ruling (3/7/07 RBR #46). The commercial broadcasters asked for a reconsideration of key parts of the ruling, saying that the methods used to calculate the fees were faulty. Attorney David Oxenford's BroadcastLawBlog concurred: "In the Motion filed by the Broadcasters' group, it was argued that an expert witness offered by SoundExchange, in the proceeding which is now underway to determine royalty rates for satellite radio, contradicted some of the basic assumptions used by SoundExchange's witness in this proceeding...If the assumptions used by SoundExchange's expert in the satellite proceeding were to be applied in this case, the royalties would actually decrease from those that were in effect before the Board's decision." The AP reported Jonathan Potter, the executive director of the Digital Media Association (DiMA), which represents major online companies affected by the decision, asked that the judges specifically allow a per-tuning-hour approximation measure for paying the royalties. "He also asked the judges to clarify a 500 dollar annual fee per broadcasting channel, saying that with some online companies offering many thousands of listening options, counting each one as a separate channel could lead to huge fees for online broadcasters."
| See the NPR filing here |
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Attorney firings dominate the news
The saga of eight fired US attorneys exploded from 2% overall coverage to 16%, according to the Project for Excellence in Journalism. During the week of 3/11-16/07, the story was the only one on the overall chart to break into double digits. The previous week, it had appeared on only two of five top ten media lists, and this time it was the top story on all but one. On the other hand, it was a fairly subdued week for Iraq coverage, with three categories combined dropping from 22% to 15% of the general news hole. The prior week's biggest single story - the Libby trial - was gone, although a vestigial element made the new list, thanks to coverage of former CIA operative Valery Plame Wilson's appearance before the House Oversight Committee. Still, at 2% it was far below the 13% given to Libby coverage before. The overall top ten list had a respite from the tabloid type stories which had made it into mainstream coverage, although cable was still unable to fully get over its addiction to Anna Nicole Smith's sad tale.
| Top ten lists here |
Norville to emcee awards in Vegas
 "Inside Edition" anchor, Deborah Norville will emcee the 2007 Broadcasters Foundation of America Pioneer Awards, Wednesday, April 18th at The Bellagio in Las Vegas. Norville is a director and member of the executive committee of the foundation. Receiving honors at the annual breakfast as Broadcast Pioneers will be retired President & CEO of Jefferson-Pilot Communications Company Jim Babb, Gary Chapman, CEO emeritus of LIN TV Corporation, California radio entrepreneur Bob Fox, Radio Ink Publisher B. Eric Rhoads, Sorenson Broadcasting President & CEO Dean Sorenson and California-Oregon Broadcasters President Patricia C. Smullin.
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Leverage Your Station's Brand
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Advertisement
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 The Fast Track to HD at NAB
Free seminars on how to meet and defeat the competition with ready-today strategies for HD Radio, Multicasting, Messagecasting and Internet Broadcasting.
| More info on www.bdcast.com |
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Ad Business Report TM
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Chevy chooses CC Radio for Silverado campaign
Chevrolet and Clear Channel Radio announced that the GM brand has chosen the broadcaster to execute a full-year broadcast and digital media campaign, running now, to extol the features of the all-new Silverado. The campaign is the first to integrate 15-second CC Radio traffic sponsorships with floating digital ads on the Web sites of radio stations located in key truck-buying markets. Through the integrated implementation of CC Radio's on-air and online assets, 15-second radio traffic sponsorships airing in Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, New Orleans, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City and Oklahoma City will direct listeners to the station websites of the respective radio stations in these markets. Once there, consumers will see floating images of Chevy Silverado trucks driving across home pages and parking in the leaderboard sections, which will provide more info on the benefits of the vehicle along with links to www.chevy.com/shop on station sites.
 Arbitron details
RADAR 92 numbers
Arbitron released preliminary findings from the RADAR 92. This time, Arbitron is highlighting some of the key demographic findings from the new RADAR results that advertisers look for when placing their ad buys. Radio reaches 232 million listeners over the course of the week according to the RADAR 92 March 2007 Radio Listening Estimates. This remains consistent from a year ago. The 7,100+ RADAR Network Affiliated stations (which account for 55% of all radio stations) reach 89% of all radio listeners. RADAR Network affiliates have consistent delivery reaching the key young and adult demos advertisers target; they reach 84% of teens 12-17 and 85% of adults 18-34 and 25-54. The diversity of formats in radio attracts advertiser coveted demographics in both Black Non-Hispanic and Hispanic persons. 95% of Black Non-Hispanic persons and 95% of Hispanic persons, age 12 and older tune into radio over the course of a week. Radio reaches 97% of Black Non-Hispanics and Hispanics age 25-54 over the course of a week. Radio reaches 95% of college grads age 18+. 96% of Adults age 25-54 with a college degree and an annual household income of $50,000 or above, tune into radio over the course of a week. On Monday Arbitron will release the complete RADAR 92 results. Sample size for RADAR 92 has been increased to more than 140,000 diarykeepers.
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| Media Markets & Money TM |
SD CP sold
Robert E. Ingstad is getting a DIY project in Presho SD, a small town south of the South Dakota state capital, Pierre. According to Media Services Group broker Jody McCoy, the pricetag is 450K. The station will beam 100 kw from 100.3 MHz. The seller is College Creek Media LLC.
Business broadcaster strikes again
BusinessTalkRadio.net Inc. has added another market. Their latest transaction is the acquisition of Inner City Broadcasting's WURP-AM in Pittsburgh. According to broker Frank Boyle of Frank Boyle and Co., it represents the final sale of Inner City's trio of stations acquired from Kernie Anderson back in 1998 (including WSRF-AM Ft. Lauderdale and WHAT-AM Philadelphia). For Michael Metter's BusinessTalkRadio.net, it will mark entry into their fifth market. The group has stations in Stamford-Norwalk CT, Boston and Las Vegas, plus a pending acquisition of a trio of FMs on Long Island NY (the Nassau-Suffolk Arbitron market). The price was not immediately disclosed.
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| Washington Media Business Report TM |
FCC cuts to the fat
The Joint Task Force on Media and Childhood Obesity will sit today on the Russell Senate Office Building turf of Sam Brownback (R-KS). Three FCC Commissioners are also participating in the group, Chairman Kevin Martin (R), Michael Copps (D) and Deborah Taylor Tate (R). Gary Knell of the Sesame Workshop will open and close the event, and the issues will be discussed by a panel including both industry members and watchdogs. Representing broadcasters is Susan Fox from Disney, the advertising point of view will come from Association of National Advertisers' Dan Jaffe and Mary Sophos of the Grocery Manufacturers Association will provide the food angle. Also on board will be Jennifer Gootman from the Institute of Medicine and Patty Miller from Children Now.
RBR observation: Children's issues have become the special area of interest for Deborah Taylor Tate, meaning this is an area where she may be willing to cross over and vote with the 8th Floor Democrats if there is a perception that stakeholders aren't doing enough to help slim down the nation's youth. This issue will likely sustain life as the Democrats push to tie public interest obligations to nascent digital operation. Regulation is easier to push through if it has the phrase "protecting our children" attached to it. Keep your eyes on this one.
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| Entertainment Media Business Report TM |
 "The Baka Boyz Hip Hop Mastermix" moves to Dial Global
And Dial Global gets another: Fresh off the announcement of their new morning show at XMOR-FM/San Diego, The Baka Boyz (Eric and Nick Vidal) have selected Dial Global to handle syndication of "The Baka Boyz Hip Hop MasterMix," the original weekend mix show for contemporary radio. The syndication of "The Baka Boyz Hip Hop MasterMix" will continue seamlessly with Dial Global, beginning the week of 4/2. The award-winning, three-hour hosted program is one of the most successful mix shows ever produced for contemporary radio, airing in over 90 markets. The Baka Boyz manager Gary Bernstein said, "After fielding offers from several interested companies, we chose to embark on a new relationship with Dial Global because of their ability to offer our affiliates an unparalleled level of service and resources." "It's exciting to be working with The Baka Boyz," added David Landau, Co-President/CEO of Dial Global. "This is another great opportunity for Dial Global to establish another fantastic brand identity in the marketplace."
Salem books Dennis Miller for 8 stations
Eight major market Salem Communications AM News/Talk stations will be onboard next Monday (3/26) as Westwood One launches its new "The Dennis Miller Show." Salem says it has signed to air the conservative talker/comedian on KRLA Los Angeles, WIND Chicago, WNTP Philadelphia, WORL Orlando, KNUS Denver, KSKY Dallas, WDTK Detroit and KKOL Seattle. "Dennis Miller is a self-proclaimed 9-11 conservative with an engaging style and a quick wit that our listeners will appreciate. He is an entertainer, he is smart, and he understands politics and current affairs. He fits well with our other talk personalities, and he will bring a fresh perspective and new vigor to news talk on Salem stations," said Salem COO Joe Davis. WW1 says Miller will air in more than 80 markets on day one. In addition to five Salem stations in the top 10 markets, the show will also debut on Clear Channel's KNEW-AM San Francisco and KTRH-AM Houston. On-air guests during the first week will include GOP presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani and comedian Dana Carvey, who, like Miller, is a veteran of NBC's "Saturday Night Live."
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| Ratings & Research |
 Satellite radio growth among rockers slowed
The results of a new web poll survey, conducted by Rock radio consultants Jacobs Media, consisting of over 25,000 respondents from 69 Rock-formatted stations from all over the U.S., shows that satellite radio subscribership has not changed since last year's survey, despite extensive marketing throughout 2006. Jacobs Media President Fred Jacobs tells RBR: "Because this is the third one of these that we've done, and essentially at the same time over the past three years, we've actually gotten some perspective. We saw a big jump last year from 7%-12% of satellite radio listeners. Clearly Stern was the secret sauce. In our survey last year we said once the initial listeners that had subscribed to Sirius for Stern had done so, the numbers would subside-and they did. That was really borne out this year. It has stalled at 12%. The number of folks saying they were likely to become a satellite radio subscriber is also down this year." More data from the survey: Men and 30-39 year-olds are most apt to be satellite radio customers. Among those who have not bought either service to date, only 9% say they are very likely to subscribe to XM or Sirius in 2007, with the latter having a slight edge. Likely purchasing is down from 12% in the 2006 study. Of the two services, Sirius clearly has the greater momentum and overall satisfaction scores. But satellite radio subscribers are not as enthusiastic as in past Jacobs Media Technology Polls. Just over half (54%) of subscribers say they will "absolutely continue to subscribe" through the year, and once again, Sirius customers are more positive (61%). Satellite radio subscribers devote a significant portion of their overall radio listening to either XM or Sirius' various channel offerings, but still end up spending more time with terrestrial radio.
Eastlan adds markets
Radio ratings provider Eastlan is expanding its east-of-the-Mississippi portfolio with the addition of four new markets. It looks like two of them will pit it head-to-head with Arbitron, those being Lafayette IN and Bowling Green KY. The other two are Union City-Martin-Paris TN-KY and Vincennes IL-IN. Eastlan's Mike Gould lists its methods, which include "passive measurement, diary and telephone recall," which he claims is "more nimble and less expensive" than the traditional diary approach. Gould is looking to add another 12-15 markets before the year is out.
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| Transactions |
185M KEYE-TV Austin TX; KUTV-FM & KUSG-TV Salt Lake City UT (Salt Lake City, St. George UT); WLWC-TV Providence RI-New Bedford MA (New Bedford MA); and WLWC-TV West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce FL (Ft. Pierce FL) from CBS Corporation (Les Moonves) to TV Stations Acquisition LLC, a subsidiary of Cerberus Capital Management LP (Stephen Feinberg). 18.5M escrow, balance in cash at closing. LMA until closing. Deal includes two class A TVs in West Palm Beach market. KEYE-TV is a CBS affiliate on Channel 42; KUTV-FM & KUSG-TV are CBS affiliates on Channel 2 & 12; WLWC-TV is a CW affiliate on Channel 21; WLWC-TV is a CW affiliate on Channel 34, with WTCN-CA using MNT on Channel 43, and WWHB-CA using TV Azteca on Channel 48.]
30.6M KWIX-AM/KRES-FM Moberly MO; KAAN AM & FM Bethany MO; KMRN-AM/KKWK-FM Cameron MO; KJFF-AM Festus MO; KREI-AM/KTJJ-FM Farmington MO; KJPW AM & FM/KFBD-FM Waynesville MO; KBNN-AM/KJEL-FM Lebanon MO; and KIRK-FM Macon MO from Shepherd Enterprises Inc. (David L. Shepherd) to Goodradio.TV LLC (Dean Goodman). 1.53M escrow, 26.07M cash at closing, 100K non-compete and 2.9M consulting agreement. Includes three duopoly clusters and one superduopoly cluster. [File date 3/1/07.]
1.5M KBAC-FM & KSFQ-FM Santa Fe NM (Las Vegas, White Rock NM) from Clear Channel Broadcasting Inc. (Mark Mays) to Educational Media Foundation (Richard Jenkins). 75K escrow, balance in cash at closing. Clear Channel is awaiting license renewal for KBAC-FM, and if it is not timely the stations will be sold one at a time, with a network affiliation agreement put in place for KBAC. [File date 3/1/07.]
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| Stock Talk |
A day of gains
Investors are expecting the Fed to leave rates unchanged when it wraps up this month's meeting today - and are also expecting it to indicate that it expects to leave rates just where they are for a while. And if the Fed continues to leave rates alone, Wall Street expects corporate profits to do OK. The Dow Industrials rose 62 points yesterday, or 0.5%, to 12,228.
Radio stocks also had a good day. The Radio Index rose 1.256, or 0.8%, to 154.205. Salem shot up 6.5%. The only news from the company was signing to carry the Dennis Miller Show in several markets. Entercom rose 1.6%.
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| Radio Stocks |
Here's how stocks fared on Tuesday
| Company |
Symbol |
Close |
Change |
Company |
Symbol |
Close |
Change |
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Arbitron
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ARB
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46.95
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+0.68
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Journal Comm.
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JRN
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13.00
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+0.01
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Beasley
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BBGI
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8.98
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-0.02
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Lincoln Natl.
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LNC
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66.96
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+0.42
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| CBS CI. B |
CBS |
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30.49
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-0.16
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Radio One, Cl. A
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ROIA
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6.82
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-0.07
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| CBS CI. A |
CBSa |
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30.52
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-0.11
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Radio One, Cl. D
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ROIAK
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6.80
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-0.03
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| Citadel |
CDL |
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9.81 |
+0.11 |
Regent
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RGCI
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3.00
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+0.01
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Clear Channel
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CCU
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35.52
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-0.12
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Saga Commun.
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SGA
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9.80
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+0.01
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Cox Radio
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CXR
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13.59
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-0.01
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Salem Comm.
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SALM
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12.94
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+0.79
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Cumulus
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CMLS
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9.23
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unch
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Sirius Sat. Radio
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SIRI
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3.31
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+0.02
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Disney
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DIS
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34.38
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+0.29
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Spanish Bcg.
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SBSA
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4.11
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-0.11
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Emmis
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EMMS
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8.00
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-0.02
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SWMX
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SMWX
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0.92
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+0.07
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| Entercom |
ETM
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27.74
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+0.44
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Univision
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UVN
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36.10
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-0.06
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Entravision
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EVC
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8.83
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+0.03
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Westwood One
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WON
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6.45
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+0.09
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Fisher
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FSCI
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47.08
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+0.29
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XM Sat. Radio
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XMSR
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13.54
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+0.10
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Hearst-Argyle
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HTV
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26.26
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+0.14
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Bounceback
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 We want to
hear from you.
This is your column, so send your comments and
a photo to [email protected]
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Below the Fold
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Ad Business Report
Chevy chooses CC Radio
For Silverado campaign...
RADAR 92 numbers
Arbitron is highlighting some of the key demographic findings...
Media Markets & Money
SD CP sold
Robert E. Ingstad is getting a DIY project...
Business broadcaster strikes
BusinessTalkRadio.net Inc. has added another market...
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Stations for Sale
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Mississippi AM-FM
Recently Merged, Profitable Now
Significant Upside Remains
Gordon Rice Associates
(843) 884-3590
[email protected]
NorthEast FM's For Sale
Clusters, standalones, sticks
8x - 12x BCF, 950K - 7.2M
[email protected] or
781-848-4201
10 TX, AZ, NC, and GA
FM radio stations at an exceptional value offered for sale. Broker cooperation encouraged. Please visit www.toweritrust.com for complete information including pricing.
 Market your Stations For Sale
in our daily epapers.
Contact
June Barnes
[email protected]
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Radio Media Moves
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Webb to Vegas
Beasley Broadcast Group announced that classic rock personality Eddie Webb has joined the on-air line up at "Classic Rock 96.3" KKLZ-FM Las Vegas in afternoon drive. Webb has been an on-air personality in several large radio markets, including Boston, Chicago and Phoenix, and he worked in rock programming for XM Satellite Radio.
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More News Headlines
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CBS in Internet
sports buy
CBS Corporation announced the acquisition of MaxPreps, an online network that follows high school sports nationwide. The business will become part of CSTV (College Sports Television), which CBS acquired last year. High school sports is a hot ticket for local TV in many parts of the country and CBS says having MaxPreps in the family will help local CBS Television affiliates as well. "MaxPreps is the leader in serving millions of participants who are passionate about high school sports. From the professional sports covered by CBS Sports and CBS Sportsline to the collegiate athletics covered by CSTV, this acquisition expands CBS's portfolio of sports programming and brings a spirited community of athletes and a highly desirable demographic into our reach. The company is a terrific complement to CSTV's local and regional assets. At the same time, its content will help make CBS's local television stations and web sites the 'go-to' place for local sports content in communities across the country," said Brian Bedol, President and CEO of CSTV Networks.
Art Kellar dead at 84
EZ Communications founder Art Kellar died Sunday, March 18th, at his home in Fairfax, VA. He was 84. Funeral services will be tomorrow and calling for friends this evening at Fairfax Memorial Funeral Home. A reception celebrating Art Kellar's life will take place at the Country Club of Fairfax following tomorrow's internment. EZ was sold to American Radio Systems in 1996.
Station employee
fired for prank
Ion Media Networks says an employee of KPPX-TV Phoenix has been fired, following the company's investigation into how hardcore pornography got on the air last week (3/16/07 RBR #53). The ex-employee, who was not identified, also faces further legal action by Ion.
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RBR Radar 2007
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Radio News you won't read any where else. RBR--First, Accurate, and Independently Owned.
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Hedge funds still growing...a lot!
The entry of hedge funds into radio and TV station financing in the past couple of years has been one of the biggest changes in the station transaction market - and broadcasting is not alone. Many other industries are seeing involvement from hedge funds as the aggressive managers seek new places to put their funds to work. Also, investors are literally lining up to pump more cash into hedge funds in hopes of generating better returns than many other investments. Hedgefund.net estimates total hedge fund asset levels increased by almost 6% in the last quarter of 2006 to 1.89 trillion from 1.79 trillion in the third quarter.
RBR note: There is a lot more information on hedge funds in this special RBR report page.
03/20/07 RBR #55
Web still struggling with localism
A venture capitalist quoted in Business Week recently said that there is a pot of gold out there for the person who figures out how to create a truly local Internet gathering place aimed at neighbors, and the local businesses that would love to get their messages in front of them. The good news for broadcasters is that so far, this has proven to be an illusive goal. Much of the content on the Internet survives because it can gain critical mass by being found by like-minded but geographically diverse people. This possibility is shut off by definition for a local site. And there is still a problem, reported by entrepreneurs who have been trying to get such sites off the ground, of persuading advertisers to pay to be part of it.
RBR observation: It's abundantly clear that the web is sucking cash out of all other advertising media already, and it will not be good when someone figures out a way to create a viable local Internet community. Radio's defense of its local turf must be sincere, spirited and strong.
03/20/07 RBR #55
Hollander hitting the Exit Door?
While CBS Radio has no comment on the matter, The NY Post reported Friday that CBS Radio Chairman and CEO Joel Hollander is "quietly laying the groundwork to step down before his contract expires at year's end after a discordant relationship with CBS boss Les Moonves...Hollander...is said to be tired of the continual battles with Moonves over the radio unit's direction."
RBR observation: Joel has weathered many storms at the helm of CBS Radio. We're not sure about this one. We're also not sure why this article came out-if it was the product of a conversation with Joel or not, it looks a bit like he may not make it to the end of the year. But he has surprised many before, so no surprises either way, we say. We've heard in the past Moonves has been in discussions with both Jimmy deCastro and Randy Michaels (who now has a new job in TV). We imagine this past weekend may have brought at least one of those conversations back to light. We would also predict some folks might be coming back that had been previously been fired. Last deals with boss Moonves and this is no secret as he has stated in a number of conference calls about the radio side of CBS, to him it is only a Margin Business.
03/19/07 RBR #54
TNS sees Internet growing fast
The changing media landscape was caught in a TNS Media Intelligence annual snapshot which saw TV's usual even-year growth, flat radio, declining newspaper and burgeoning internet. The advertising market as a whole was reported up by 4.1%. TGS measures five general media categories, and internet was part of "all other media," along with outdoor and free-standing inserts. Here is a category-by-category breakdown special page report in RBR.
03/19/07 RBR #54
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Hard finding that key person
to fill the important position at your organization? Media HeadHunters is the place that key media firms use to get results. See Media HeadHunters and get results with service--Period.
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