We continue our interview with CC Radio CEO John Hogan regarding comments made by Jon Mandel, Chairman/MediaCom US and Chief Global Buying Officer MediaCom yesterday (12/15 RBR #243) on the recent AAAAs letter sent to Hogan regarding concerns on his Less is More clutter-cutting initiative (12/3 RBR #235).

What about Mandel's statement that restraint of trade issues may be brought up regarding the current refusal to allow :60s to run first in pod?

"I know Jon, and he's also the guy that said consolidation had allowed us to raise our rates, remember? But it's bogus - - nobody's had rate increases. That's part of the problem. We'd love to have them, but it just hasn't occurred. And I don't have much of an appetite for having a debate with Jon in the press. When his comments show up in your publication, I will give him a call and we will talk it through. I mean he and I have a very good relationship and I think that he wants each medium - - radio included - - to be the best that it can be. We have engaged in dialogue with him and will continue to try and accomplish that. That is what Less is More is all about - - it's in response to what we heard from advertisers, as well as the research that we got."

He adds, "I made a commitment to the 4As that we would make efforts to provide first in pod opportunities for :60s as well as :30s, and we've begun to work on that, already. I can't tell you we're going to do it tomorrow, but LIM is an organic evolutionary process. It's going to continue to change. We have heard loudly and clearly from advertisers that while the first in pod :30 is very appealing, in some ways, the limitation is it's not available for :60s advertisers. We're going to address that and I think that we will see :60 positions first in pod in the future. And on the accountability issue and the reporting issue, that one for us is a no-brainer. We're committed to working with the task force for the committee. All of our stations are on the same proprietary traffic systems, so it would be very easy for us to implement whatever they need implemented so that they feel confident. We absolutely have the ability to identify first in pod positions, and we are also absolutely committed to the electronic invoicing. And so what I did is we committed to them that we would work with them in whatever committee that they wanted to and to certainly be a part of it."

Hogan took exception to Mandel's comments about not investing in the medium: "I would take a little bit of an exception with the idea that we're not investing. We just this year launched a number of Progressive talk stations. We launched a number of Gospel stations and Urban stations. We committed to a significant Hispanic effort; we have a multimillion dollar effort in our creative services group; we made a $100 million commitment to digital radio, which we're going to roll out over the next several years, and we continue to invest significant amounts of money in things like Donald Trump, Jessie Jackson, content all across the country in each of our local markets. We have 900+ local programmers and we do 25M+ research calls a year, investing in the product.

Speaking of programming, what are you going to do to fix the "cookie cutter" formats that everyone's been griping about? What about new formats like Indie Rock and Underground Classic Rock? Formats where the songs aren't ones we've all heard a million times each no matter what market we're in? There is so much music XM and Sirius are tapping into that we won't hear on these restrictive formats in almost every market across the country with commercial radio.

"I think that our most recent initiative involving the Internet speaks volumes about our commitment. We went out and we hired Evan Harrison from AOL. That was after a nationwide search to find the very best person to lead our efforts in that space."

Are you going to bring some of that effort to the terrestrial side as well?

"Well, sure. They are absolutely complimentary and they have to be compatible. We reach 100 million plus people a week. And that's our company. Radio in general is reaching 95% of the American population. And I would be very quick to point out that we have some challenges. We absolutely have to deal with those challenges."

In my opinion, there is a lot out there to be useful examples for an Indie Rock or Underground Classic Rock channel. Find a talented MD or programmer that can pick the best of the best tunes from, say, www.3wk.com 's channels, www.techwebsound.com , www.Somafm.com 's Indie Pop Rocks channel, Radio @ Netscape Plus' Indie channels ( http://radio.netscape.com/radio/radiosell2.html ), Sirius ch. 26, 25 and 22, for example. Not every one of these sources are playing perfect tune after perfect tune (some of the songs absolutely stink!). But find a format programmer who can pick the best from these sources and create new formats for your stations like Indie Rock and Underground Classic Rock. The end results will appeal to similar demos as Alternative and Classic Rock listeners, but it will keep them listening longer and more often, and keep more from moving to other media for refreshing music. There is nothing stopping terrestrial radio and the talent that runs it - - corporate giant or not - - from making these stations unique and energizing once again.

"Here's the short answer to your question. As a company, we are committed to experimenting, to stepping outside the box, to doing new and different things with our radio stations and with our formats. Again, I would point to some of the early successes that we have seen in the Progressive Talk arena. Is there more to do? Absolutely. That's the key for us and for everybody else - - to make sure that we stay connected with the audience."

Are you working on it, do you have more formats in process to roll out?

"I would tell you that right after the first of the year, there are some things [the rest of this quote is off the record, but STAY TUNED FOLKS, it's good...]. There are some real genuine efforts underway to fix it...I don't want you to come away from this conversation thinking that I don't have a very strong desire to see us improve the product. It is the number one priority for every one of our managers."

RBR observation:
CC Radio has managed to put themselves on the radar screens of the AAAAs and important media people like Jon Mandel because of Less is More. We only wish they could have succeeded even more in getting to these people in selling their national cross-platform packages, including radio, concerts, billboards and internet. On the programming side, we hope to see that announcement coming within weeks. But remember, in our opinion, even an "Indie Rock" format with only 100-150 songs will get stale quick. It's all about picking the best of the best from a larger selection of music genres. Call it "Free-form Indie Rock" if you like, but pull from Indie Pop, Indie Rock, 90s Indie, Classic Alternative, Reggae Roots, Modern Reggae, Alternative, etc. Broaden the playlist, keep the demo. That's where true programming talent going forward may lie for keeping radio listeners tuned in. Finding DJs who are truly into the music and can talk about the bands is another plus.